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Bend Studio did two awesome things with Days Gone and every game should do the same: real, proper collectible tracking AND not demanding to collect/doing ALL collectibles/challenges for a platinum.

1- Tracking:
I can't think of another game that did this this well- or at all. Not only are collectibles/challenges are tracked, but they are tracked in a very clear way. You know exactly what you picked up. You know exactly what is left all are numbered and marked). You need 100 items and you found 99? Haven't got a clue where the last one is? Don't fret! Of course there is no need to scourge the whole map again and again in a frustrating never-ending circle! Just check. You know EXACTLY which item is missing and by looking it up you know EXACTLY where it is and whether you already picked it up or not.
Those who played Mad Max know exactly what I'm talking about (the 191 nightmare where you can only get 190...).
I also came across this problem in God of War. You had to collect crows. I did some of them. What's left? WHO FUCKING KNOWS?! SCAN THE WHOLE MAP AGAIN, LOESER! The final few where a real chore and a bore to get because you had no idea which ones were missing... You can to systematically go everywhere looking for it even with a guide. Who in their right mind thinks this is 'fun' in any shape or form?!

2- Needing 75% of total items:
Glitched collective? Boring challenges? No need. Just do 75% of the stuff and you're good. I had a scare with a Ripper speaker challenge. I didn't know what it was. I thought it was burning their flag. I tried, they wouldn't burn. I looked it up and it was their speakers. I thought 'right, like Nero; just shoot them'. I shot one and it just fell to the ground still working. I looked it up again and you had to turn it off from the base. It didn't work for me and I tried in two different gaming sessions. I thought "well, there goes the plat...". But no, because Bend is so awesome, you can do most collectibles but you didn't have to do all. I got so happy I finished one after the fact because the made me want to and not have to, HUGE difference. And not only you need 75%, but you need 75% TOTAL so you can have some of the collectibles in each categories and it would work. It counts each single collectible and not just completed groups. Someone asked in the general gaming section about what platinums did people enjoy, and I said NONE because there is always that 'fuck you' trophy you hate and is frustrating to get. Not with this game, man. Not with this game.

This takes the unnecessary pressure, confusion and frustration away. I am so happy with this decision that I want to give a big fat long wet kiss to every single member of the dev team!

ADDED:
3- There are more cairns than needed. WAY more.
You only need 12, but there are way more than that. In fact, in one cave you have about 8! After getting this challenge I still saw some cairns here and there. I just smiled and left them be. Such a joy and shows the team were thinking of the player experience during development.

Edit:
Bonus Point: no missable trophies/collectibles!
submitted by Semifreak to DaysGone

Let's discuss the themes and story of DMC5 (1/?)

So, this is about the 4th thread i've written about the plot of DMC5. I've done previous threads on Nero, Dante, and V.
However, this post is gonna ignore those. Not because those posts were terribly wrong, but I've gained greater perspective on DMC5's story. In the previous posts, i believe I got some things wrong. So it'll be easier for everyone if I write this post as a standalone. No need to read the previous posts. Hopefully just this one.

Intro

DMC5 has a dense story. Really dense. So discussing it can be fairly difficult. There are so many things to discuss, so many way to take any discussion, that chats can feel like everyone's bringing up entirely separate things to discuss. So where the hell does this post fit into the larger discussion? Well, my goal here is to help spread insights about the game and how it relates to the franchise as a whole.
Now, by necessity, discussing 5's story at length will require us to understand and talk about every other entry in the franchise (Games, novels, manga, etc. Basically everything but that japan exclusive drama CD). Why is that? Well DMC5 builds on practically everything that has come before it. The game continues arcs that began in previous games, brings in characters from side materials, and the themes in 5 are direct responses to the themes of previous games, particularly DMC3. So, if you go into 5 without knowing and understanding the rest of the franchise, you aren't viewing 5's story in its intended context. Understanding the rest of the series is the base assumption that 5 makes about its audience. It is a story intended for the longtime fans. Whether or not you like that context is a separate issue, and not the point of this thread.
As such, this post will also make the same base assumption. I will be bringing up practically every entry, when it becomes relevant to 5. As every inclusion has a purpose to the larger point being made in 5. I will also bring up the 5 novel (Thank you, platinum, for the translation!) and Visions of V when they will help deepen our understanding of 5.
With all that out of the way, let's finally begin the discussion.

Themes

I think it's really underappreciated just how theme driven DMC stories have become since Itsuno and Bingo have taken up Directing and Writing duties respectively. 3, 4, and 5 all had themes that the rest of the plot explored. DMC has many themes, but if we could summarize the entire DMC franchise in a few words, what would that look like. To reach that, let's quickly summarize the central conflicts of DMC 3, 4 and 5.
  • DMC3 - Dante awakens to his role as the son of Sparda and protects the human world, even at the cost of his brother. Lady kills her father for killing her mother. Vergil is looking to gain power, as he sees it as his right as Sparda's heir and also because of the trauma of his mother's death.
  • DMC4 - Nero turns against his city's ruling class to save his love, Kyrie. Dante is looking to stop another demon invasion and regain his late brother's sword, the Yamato.
  • DMC5 - Nero heads into Redgrave both to save Dante and take revenge on the demon that stole his arm. Dante is trying to protect both the human world and Nero. V is looking to return to Vergil.
So, with all that, how do we define the core theme of these three games? You could say family, but I'd say that's too broad. I believe the theme is
The responsibility we all have to the people we love
Every villain and hero acts in a way that directly touches on what they believe is their responsibility to who they love, or the lack thereof. Just as a quick example:
  • Nero - wants to protect the people he loves.
  • Dante - wants to uphold the legacy of the people he loves (Eva and Sparda)
  • Vergil - He sees it as his responsibility to gain Sparada's power, but he's an antagonist because his methods and reasoning are selfish and destructive.
*Lady - sees killing her father as her responsibility due to her seeing this all as a "family matter"
  • Sanctus - is seen as a villain because he shirks his responsibility as the city's leader to protect it's people.
So every game explores this (even the ones we didn't discuss, 1 and 2), and each subsequent entry builds on what the previous game brought (even the anime explored this through Patty and Dante's relationship and the apprentice episode). However, 5 is unique among the franchise, as it is the only game to directly comment on the way a previous game, DMC3, handled this theme
To expand on this, let's look at the finales of both DMC3 and 5, and see what either says about the responsibility we have to the people we love.
  • DMC3 - Dante and Vergil fight over the heirlooms left by their parents. However, they aren't fighting for the same heirlooms. Vergil wants the power of his father, and to gain it, he needs Dante's amulet. On the other hand, Dante is fighting for the legacy of his father. Both desires contradict each other. Vergil cannot gain the power of Sparda without opening the portal to hell, but that would shatter the legacy Dante is fighting to protect. At the end, Dante says he has to stop Vergil, even if it means he must kill his own brother. Dante essentially places his father's legacy of protecting over Vergil. Dante ends up winning, but the fight isn't framed as triumphant. During the final clash, sad music plays and the pain of both twins is played up. In fact, none of their fights are framed positively. From the very start the brothers' fighting is framed as a tragic outcome. When we take Dante's motivation in context with how the game frames their fighting, we can see what the game says about family responsibility. Every child must come to terms with the legacy of their parents and grow positively from it. Dante wins the fight because he can do this. Vergil is too blinded by his quest for power to see that he's destroying his family's memory by becoming everything his father fought against. Dante understands how truly important Sparda was for the human world and he knows that its his duty to continue the positive impact his family has had on the human world.
  • DMC5 - Dante and Vergil are back at it again. but things are slightly different. It's stated both in game and in Visions of V that Vergil's goal is to defeat Dante. While that may seem like a change from 3, its still an expression of Vergil's core motivation, the need for power, to the point of ignoring his duty to his family's legacy. However, that motivation has taken on a new form. Instead of a desire to obtain the power of his father, he sought to prove that his very way of life was right. Perhaps it's better to say that he wanted to prove he wasn't wrong. In Vergil's mind, might makes right. So when he lost to Dante, Vergil should've seen that he was wrong the entire time, that his quest for power hurt him more than it helped, but he didn't see that. Instead, Vergil doubled down. He can't have been wrong this entire time. He knows it, and he will fight to prove it. Dante has fallen to this mindset as well. He too needs to prove that the answer he came to in 3 was correct. [V touches on this]
While this fight is going on, Nero is nearby trying to clear his head. He's spent the whole game looking to kill the son of a bitch that took his arm, but he wasn't ready to kill his own Dad. Since 4, one of Nero's core traits has been his desire to protect the people close to him. This is how Nero sees his responsibility to the people he loves. For the whole game, his desire for revenge was never in opposition to that need to protect. If anything, killing Urizen would protect the people he's closest to, but this new found family complicates Nero's entire mission. How can he protect everyone he love, if he can't even stop his uncle and father from killing each other? But if his dad's plans go through, everything else he loves will perish AND he's still enraged by the fact that his father was the one who tore off his arm. Lady touches on Nero's desire to kill his dad. Nero knows that if he kills Vergil, he will never be the same. At the same time, if he allows one of the brothers to kill the other, he knows they will remain irreparably broken. On top of all this, the world is in danger, the world, his friends, and his dearly beloved Kyrie. With all this on the line, how does Nero react?
Well, before he even knows what to do, he calls Kyrie. At the phone booth at the edge of the world. She tells Nero exactly what he needs to hear. That he already knows what's right and what's wrong. Nero then runs to the twins, and shouts that he wont let them die. Nero decides that he will protect everything that's dear to him. Nero regains his arm and awakens to true power, the kind of power even Dante recognizes. The kind of power that comes from fighting like hell to protect what matters. The rage that clouded Nero's head has cleared, and he swoops in at the final moment and stops the twins from killing each other. Nero sends both twins flying in separate directions, and he says that neither one is dying tonight. He then kicks the shit out of his father just to prove his point.
The game frames this as a success. Through Nero's choice, everyone is saved. The human world is restored, all of Nero's comrades are safe, and Dante and Vergil's relationship has been repaired. Even Vergil seems like he's not as obsessed with power as he was before.
Dmc5 looks at what DMC3 said, and partially agrees. It agrees that the brothers fighting is tragic, but 5 pushes that even further. 5 says that killing a family member, or to put it in a less extreme light, genuinely hurting them, is unacceptable in any context. 5 says it's a failure on both member of the family. The first for being a massive asshole, and the second for failing to communicate with that asshole properly and bring them back to reality.
DMC5 says:
It is our responsibility to our loved ones to protect them. Both from others and from themselves.

End (for now?)

God that was a doozie to write! but i've been playing through 5's story again recently, and I HAD to put this out there! I may rewrite my previous character analyses with this new theme in mind or I might just write more about the story of any game, but I'm not sure atm. Regardless, i hope you enjoyed reading this behemoth of a post!
TL;DR story packed.
submitted by kjlop to DevilMayCry

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