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Sharing my experience playing every Magician Class to 210

So I finally reached 210 on my last Magician which is a Bishop so I just wanna share my experience on playing every single Magician Class. I'm from MapleSEA so I don't have Beast Tamer.
  • It's going to be more about my mobbing and grinding experience for pre 5th job, and post 5th job
  • I only main Kanna and even that I'm only starting to really boss recently with my new guild. So my opinions here isn't really bossing focused but I will just give some opinions about it take it with a grain of salt I only play them to 210, so my experience is NOT AN ACCURATE REPRESENTATION of how the class is supposed to be like endgame.
  • I just want to share my experience playing it so that anyone who wants to play a Magician can have some insight on the grinding and the skills
  • I'ma split it into 4th job + 5th Job mobbing + bossing (which I'm not very experienced)
  • If anyone want to give some tips for the class do chip in as well. If I'm mistaken about some points in my post do correct me especially if you main the class
With that, let me start with my Main first and then go down the list


  • Gonna start off this list with the one that to me was the easiest to train (which is also my main) and that is Kanna. I reckon a lot of you will make Kanna either for mesos farming, or for the amazing link skills. First of all, Kishin itself already made Kanna a whole lot easier to train with the increased spawn rate. Shikigami Haunting is a really good mobbing skill that has good vertical and pretty solid horizontal range. Ghost Yaksha Boss is also a useful powerful summon to clear a small portion of the map. Pre 4th Job I'm not sure how strong your Exorcist Charm and Tengu Strike is but if they are strong enough Exorcism Charm is like a pseudo 1/3 map nuke at 3 cd and Tengu Strike has one of if not the best horizontal range in the game. The teleport is also good like really good. You also have a upward jump. Nine Tails is an occasional 45 cd nuke that is really good too.
  • Kanna has one of the best 5th Job skills ever. Lets start with the best support skill in the game which is Spirit Domain that not only has a HUGE AOE probably the most OP AOE in the game. You also have Summon Yuki-onna which is a Snow Fairy that reduces mana consumption and attacks while you attack. Liberated Spirit Circle is a really good passive skill that summons a giant circle every 25 sec while you attack with Shikigami/Vanquisher, however this skill isn't that essential in mobbing. Lastly, the new whole screen Yaksha like .... I'm not sure why they made this skill so good and such a big AOE as if Kanna need anymore AOE
  • Everyone wants a Kanna in their team period. Spirit Domain is an amazing skill for the entire party with 33% FD and +2 Attack Speed when full charged. Not only that, you have 2 amazing barriers, one which is vital in reducing incoming damage, and another that boosts your damage and boss attack. Also, Kanna has 2 binds, one that binds for 10 sec another for 15 sec. Haku also increases FD and MATK of party members. What I usually do is Domain + Yuki-onna and spam Vanquisher to quickly charge up the Domain for my party. The new V Skill also have i-frame before and after casting. It's literally the best support class in the entire game for me. Furthermore as a support class (at least for my own experience), you don't need to really have exceptional stats to be useful. I'm mostly just there to support, cast barriers, cast domain, bind etc while contributing a bit to the party with my damage.

Fire Poison ArchMage

  • Let me just say, out of all the mages, this is the hardest and most tedious to level up. If you don't care about playing F/P and just want to quickly get over 4th job so that you can reach 200, either play a I/L or Bishop then change job after. Levelling during 4th Job you will be spamming Paralyze which has pretty subpar AOE, and the occasional 45 cd Meteor. Don't bother using Flame Haze/Poison Mist and Mist Eruption for mobbing, at least for my experience it is less efficient. The teleport is also really bad to make grinding efficient.
  • 5th Job just makes this class 10x better. Your 5th Job skills have short CD that helps out a lot in AOE mobbing. DoT Punishier summons homing Fire Balls while Poison Nova releases Poison Orbs from the caster. These 2 skills really help a lot in mobbing. I usually just let the balls fly everywhere. The new skill Poison Pandemic at 30 cd also helps in mobbing, but less efficient because the poison spreads slowly compared to the earlier 2 skills which instantly damages enemies on touch. Finally, the giant Ifrit has a pretty big AOE and does good damage.
  • Fire Poison has really good damage for bossing. You however have quite a few skills to juggle. For me before I use Poison Nova I try to make sure my Mist Eruption is always available so that I can explode it. Try to balance the timing well together with Flame Haze's poison mist. Explorer Mages have Infinity that greatly boost your damage. DoT Punishier homing Fire Balls all hits the boss if there is only a single target. Don't forget Meggido Flame as well. Giant Ifrit lasts longer with more fire stacks so do take note. Make sure you don't waste your Infinity because the damage increase + the burst from this class is huge. This class is that it really is just a damage focused class, with no I-frame and no binds etc, just pure damage.

Ice Lightning ArchMage

  • 4th Job mobbing wise the best out of the 3 Explorer Mages. Chain Lightning has the best AOE out of the 3 Explorer Mages class. Blizzard as your occasional 45 cd AOE nuke. Frozen Orb can hit multiple platforms if they are close enough. What makes this class easy to level up compared to the other 2 Explorer Mages, is that the teleport has a lot further range with the Hyper. Tbh tier mobbing in 4th job is ok not fantastic, it's 5th job where they shine.
  • The reason why I/L is so good at mobbing is their 5th Job skills. Spirit Of Snow is a stationary summon that damages monsters for 30 sec at 120 cd. The AOE is really really big so for 1/4 of your grinding process that skill got part of the map fully covered. Next Ice Age is simply amazing. It was OP before now it's less OP but still good. You just BAM explode an entire area of ice on the ENTIRE MAP and leave an icy floor for 15 sec, with a cooldown of 60 sec, so another skill with 1/4 uptime. If your damage is high enough mobs will just get 1 or 2 shot when they spawn on the icy floor. Bolt Barrage at 40 cd has a really long vertical and horizontal range. Their new 5th job is more bossing oriented
  • Bossing wise this class isn't that great. F/P has better damage and Bishop has better buffs/support, but lets see what this class have. You need to constantly keep your ice stacks up. Damage wise for bossing it isn't that great. Lightning Sphere is strong but it forces you to stay on one spot. Bolt Barrage is strong but only if the boss is at the left or right side of the map, which is where Bolt Barrage can have more hits. I/L has a shit ton of buffs so RIP to you without a buff freezer. Their new 5th Job V skill is really good for bossing. I/L do have a bind with Freezing Breath that also serves as an I-frame so that's a plus, but generally people tend to switch classes to F/P or Bishop if they really are focused on bossing.


  • This class might actually be easier to grind than the other 2 Explorer Mages at least for 4th Job because of Holy Symbol. Genesis occasional 45 cd AOE nuke. Big Bang has ok AOE and can hit multiple platforms if they are close enough. The good thing about Big Bang is that you can jump and attack with it, unlike Paralyze/Chain Lightning. Heaven's Door has a really long cooldown but it has huge AOE.
  • Out of all the mages (not just Explorer Mages but all Mages), the post 5th job mobbing is probably the worse. Peacemaker does have pretty good AOE and is spammable with 10 cd, but still isn't good enough to make it better than every other mage. You can just let the Peacemaker fire and move forward that explodes at the end, or press it again to explode it on the spot. Bishop is the only class that I ever got Erda Shower (45 cd) because of the lack of AOE post 5th job. The new 5th Job skills is pretty ok but honestly I don't really see myself using it that often I just spam Big Bang. Mobbing with this class just isn't on par with the rest.
  • Bossing wise Bishop is really good. You can heal you can resurrect you can dispel you can provide buffs. You can heal with Heal/Angel Ray/PeacemakeAngel of Libra/Holy Magic Shell/Holy Fountain (did I miss out anything else?). Especially Angel Ray spam, it makes you a mobile healing turret. The skill that everyone loves is Benediction which increases Final Damage/HP&MP recovery/Attack Speed and clears statues. This is however based on your INT so Bishop would need more funding to be a stronger asset to the party. Also, Holy Magic Shell is super useful in bossing because it mitigates certain boss attacks. Heaven's Door also provide an extra life count. Peacemaker heals + provide damage buff. The damage of this class is low but the benefits it brings to the party just makes it a superior choice.

Blaze Wizard

  • Doesn't actually feel like a mage because it flash jumps instead of teleport. Feels like playing an assassin flash jumping around throwing fireballs. Orbital Flame range is very bad until 140 with the Hyper and things get better then. Blazing Extinction is pretty good to clear 1 side of the map. Towering Inferno is your 30 cd semi screen nuke (which would be good if you can 1 shot, reason I say this is because it isn't as strong as the MeteoBlizzard/Genesis of Explorer Mages), while Cataclysm is your occasional 100 cd full screen nuke. Mobbing is pretty good I guess but really depends on your funding because if you can 1 shot with Orbital Flame is great if not .... well.
  • Their 5th Job makes mobbing a lot better. You get a 5 cd Giant Orbital Flame, a 20 cd Savage Flame that either nukes half of the map (Lion) or summon multiple fireballs that is homing to monsters (Fox). Their new 5th Job Skill isn't that great for mobbing. Now we have the highlight which is Inferno Sphere which has really big AOE. It takes time to slowly get Phoenix Feathers but once you have it you can spam it often. You can also use it midair. Blaze Wizard mobbing in 5th job is really good to me. If you know how to use the hidden portals to rotate Giant Orbital Flame it makes mobbing a lot more efficient (search BW mobbing for this). Aesthetically I love the entire Flame Theme it's really fire fire everywhere.
  • Bossing wise I think they are ok. Burning Conduit is like a mini Benediction/Domain with more uptime, increasing party members damage and attack speed in the AOE. The continuous damage isn't that fantastic. Savage Flame is a bit weird the way it gets the flames from Ignition. The new Salamander skill adds more damage for single target DPS and also gives you MATT when it finishes. Lastly comes Inferno Sphere which is where bulk of your damage is from. Your Hyper Skill Dragon Blaze would also come into play here. No bind, but you have a long I frame with Cataclysm and a skill that grants you something like an extra life but it's at a cooldown of 1800 sec. You can also animation cancel with Flashfire


  • I have read people having a hard time grinding Evan but honestly for me it was pretty good? In general most of Evan's mobbing comes from their 4th Job skills, even when they reach 5th Job. You either like or hate their playstyle. Evan has a lot of combos to play around with. For mobbing it is mostly Breath + Earth and Flash + Wind and the occasional Dragon Master Hyper Skill. I'm guessing people who have difficulty grinding are those who can't kill efficiently because of their lack of range to kill with those combos especially Flash + Wind. You also have Dark Dog which honestly, I forget it ever existed. Mobility wise is ok, they have an upward jump and a pretty far teleport. The downside is the Teleport cannot be used in air which sucks.
  • Classes get 4 skills but for Evan it's as if they got 3 because 2 of them namely Dragon Break + Elemental Barrage is like a combo. The combo is 60 cd which is pretty ok I guess but the AOE is really really huge. Their new 5th Job Spiral of Mana is almost like a mini combo as well which is pretty good for mobbing. Zodiac Ray, is more of a bossing skill. So like I've mentioned earlier, most of your mobbing capabilities really comes from 4th Job.
  • Evan has a HUGE BURST from Zodiac Ray. It is important you know what combos to use and cast them fast for Zodiac Ray because every second wasted is a fall in damage. Basically once you use Zodiac Ray which is like a turret, you need to use skills and combos to charge it and once it is fully charged it will blast like a giant laser thingy which does a huge amount of damage. In order to charge it your skills MUST HIT so make sure it does. If you have Angelic Buster Link Skill best save it for Zodiac Ray. For bossing it is also important for Evan to use "Come Back" efficiently to make sure debuffs and Attack Speed buff is active. It might be hard to micromanage so many skills during bossing so might be hard to learn. Dragon Master has a really really long I-frame but it has a long cooldown. Overall I would say Evan is pretty solid but requires practice.


  • The 4th Job mobbing of Luminous is unmatched. It is god tier literally god tier. Reflection is the best mobbing skill in the entire game it literally hits like everything. You do need to be strong enough to 1 shot but even if you 2 shot it is still the best mobbing skill ever like don't even bother with Apocalypse for grinding. Do note that Reflection tends to shoot downwards, as in the reflected attacks tend to go downwards so it's best to stay high and shoot left/right. The only complaint, is the teleport is bad outside equilibrium. I mean it is getting better, in daft the new changes are great with higher vertical change and being able to teleport on ropes, but it still cannot be used in air.
  • 5th Job is good for mobbing, but then again do you really need it when you have Reflection? But still, Gate Of Light which you can use once every time you reach Equilibrium, has a really big AOE, the AOE is even bigger than what it looks. Aether Conduit does help. The only issue Luminous might have in mobbing is not the skills, but the stats required to 1 shot with Reflection in Dark Mode in higher level maps. The other 2 V skills are more bossing oriented. Nodes wise is where Luminous has a huge plus, of only really needing Reflection/Apocalypse/Ender, compared to other classes who need multiple nodes for more skills.
  • Luminous bossing is a lot about Equilibrium Mode. I think it is a lot easier now to reach Equilibrium. You rotate Light and Dark skills to reach Equilibrium, and you can also use Equalize to instantly enter Equilibrium. During Equilibrium just spam Ender. Baptism of Light and their new V skill are more for bossing so use them here. Aether Conduit and Gate Of Light for extra damage as well. Pretty straightforward. Also, Armageddon serves both as a Bind and an I-frame which is pretty neat.

Battle Mage

  • Grinding is pretty bad, almost as bad as F/P, until you can 1 shot with Dark Genesis and once you get your Hyper Skill. Let get this out of the way first, Battle Mage's Finishing Blow, has the worse AOE out of all the Mages from their main attack. However, once you can 1 shot with Dark Genesis which as a cooldown of 30 sec, and Hyper Skill Sweeping Staff with a CD of 13 sec, it gets better. The teleport is also good and does pretty good damage. Probably the 2nd worse Mage to grind for me, F/P still takes the cake as the worse pre 5th Job mobbing.
  • 5th Job makes your mobbing so good. Grim Harvest is a giant stationary summon (which you can reposition if you press the skill again) with a cooldown of 100 sec. It also have more duration the more monsters it kills. For me mobbing wise it's like I/L Snow Fairy skill but better. Aura Scythe is amazing, does a lot more damage and you have the effects of all your auras. The higher the level the longer the duration. The Altars is also really good for mobbing once you position them properly. Then we have our new skill which makes your teleport super strong. For me I just teleport around and I kill everything just by teleporting. With proper rotation between all your 5th Job skills I would say Battle Mage actually has one of the best mobbing out of all the mages.
  • You need to learn how to properly telecast for bossing because a lot of your damage comes from Dark Shock from your teleport as well. Adding the fact that your new 5th Job is basically an advanced Teleport, Telecasting is even more important now. Telecasting can be pretty hard depending on what bosses you fight so practice makes perfect. 5th Job skills are good for bossing, and Aura Scythe is really really good because you have the effects of all the Auras. What Battle Mage also contributes to bossing is their Auras. Rotating Debuff and Dark Aura would be optimal but might be troublesome to micromanage. You want to make sure your Dark Genesis is always waiting for cooldown because it gives extra damage to your skills so do not add the CD reduce Hyper Skill. You also have Party Shield which reduces the % of damage when hit by HP based attacks, which actually is majority of a lot of boss attacks now. This is really really useful because survivability is key in bossing. This would also be the only time you use Battle Rage, which makes your skill single target but gives you more Damage/Crit Rate/Crit Damage.


  • 4th Job mobbing of Illium depends on the map. For me Illium was actually really easy to level up once you get the hang of it and where to optimally position your orb. Illium do very well in smaller maps all you do is reposition Orb left, spam Javelin/Orb, reposition Orb right, spam Javelin/Orb rinse and repeat. Once the orb is fully charged you enter GOD MODE whereby you can fly around and spam Javelin. Also, you get to teleport and fly the mobility is great.
  • 5th Job Illium gets the ability to summon extra Orbs that really helps in mobbing. Once you position the Orbs properly all you do is spam Javelin/Orb on your own Orb and the Fake Crystal Orbs. Do note that the shooting Crystal skill do not explode the Fake Orbs, it only works on the real movable one. The Fake Orbs is mainly for you to shoot your Javelin for it to ricochet around. They also get a giant summon with Templar Knight that acts as a stationary summon. If you are in Glory Wings or if your Crystal is at level 3 charge and above it does double damage. Crystal Ignition has a really big AOE if it hits an Orb, I usually just go left right left right pointing the laser. Their new 5th Job skill that summons up to 3 portals allows you to teleport from 1 portal to another, making Illium better at training in bigger maps. It also deals additional blasts from Crystal Gates when you receive a buff near a portal. 5th Job mobbing for Illium is really fun and easy once you set up your Orbs and Portals properly.
  • Bossing wise it can be pretty annoying with mobile bosses. The 1 complaint I really have is that you lose your Crystal Charges if you die. Their 2 5th Job attacking skills are good for bossing as well. Fairly simple, position orb and spam Javelin/Orb to charge crystal. Once you hit Glory Wings just spam Javelin nonstop. You also have a heal that heals you every few seconds that can be used once per crystal charge turn. They also have a skill that charges the crystal faster so that you can get Glory Wings more often. Portals help do extra damage and also if properly set up can help you get to places of the map easier when required. They also have an I-frame from Longinus Zone, and a party I-frame with Crystalline Bulwark of up to 10 sec with 10 stacks. Overall I would say it's pretty good I just hate it when you lose your charges when you die. You also cannot really time your burst window unlike Luminous who can immediately go into Equilibrium when needed.


  • Mobbing is pretty good 4th Job with Ultimate Psychic Shot, but this uses up quite a lot of Psychic Points. You need to manage Psychic Points well with Psychic Drain and Psychic Charge to gain Psychic Points, and occasionally Mental Tempest (save your Airwalk skill to cancel the casting of Mental Tempest, very very VERY important). Other Psychic Points consuming skills aren't worth using for grinding. The flash jump isn't as great as other classes flash jump but I got used to it. I really hate the Airwalk I get so jealous playing Ho Young's airwalk they really need to revamp it.
  • When Kinesis reach 5th Job, your mobbing is good like HELLA GOOD. Psychic Shockwave has like 0 cd and it is a spammable AOE that consumes less Psychic Points than Ultimate Psychic Shot. Mind Over Matter summons a giant cube/prism thingy that hits anything it touches. You can use Psychic Force to change it's direction. Psychic Tornado has a really big AOE, all you need to do it use it and just flash jump all over the place. Compared to their previous 5th Job skills the new skill AOE is ok, not great. Kinesis mobbing is really really good especially with the spammable Psychic Shockwave honestly it's all you need the other skills are just a bonus for mobbing.
  • Kinesis do suffer quite a bit for mobile bosses. You have a tons of debuffs to keep up on bosses like tons I kinda lost count at this point. Your 5th Job skills are great for bossing for extra DPS. Also has a bind. Metal Press to use up Psychic Points and Train only for stationary like really stationary they cannot move at all. Generally I prefer Metal Press because the Psychic Points it lower and it is easier to use. For Mind Over Matter the attack speed increases if it moves faster so use Psychic Force to speed it up (play around with it you will know what I mean). New 5th Job skill is great for bossing with more damage and debuff.
Hope my posts helps some people get some slight insight on the class. Once again my experience of these classes are not representative of how the class is meant to be like endgame. I just want to share my experience so new people making these classes will have some idea on what the classes are like. Chances are you will end up making every single class I mentioned because they all have useful Link Skills, some which you may even train till 210 for Level 3. Do let me know if there are some important stuff to add on that I missed out
submitted by icyruios to Maplestory

Sheogorath is an architect - or, how I went mad trying out settlement overhauls in 2020

The following is a retroactive justification for my descent into madness trying to work out what settlement mods I should use in this latest clean reinstall of Skyrim SE. I have previously got great mileage since 2016 out of JK + DoS with Arthmoor where appropriate and honestly there's not much pushing me away from this set up. However, nowadays there are enough fleshed out alternatives and series that I thought I would try something different.
I then thought I would have my cake and eat it too trying to mash as much together as I could- the mods that are tangentially related to cities, such as the carriages mods, the notice board and missives, docks, outlaws refuges, holidays, sewers, lanterns of skyrim II, glorious doors of skyrim, guards armour replacer... Pride comes before a month of modding algebra, as they say.
As a side note I'm pretty sure any and all problems I have encountered with any mod are my own fault and I don't magically expect authors or patch makers to have everything perfect for my own convenience, especially if I am testing the limits of compatibility. Furthermore mod authors should ignore my criticisms as they're based on my tastes and mine alone- they do not invalidate the creativity and work you've put in. You're all brilliant. This is also not a guide to the best set up for cities in skyrim, merely a snapshot of madness.
JK + DOS + Arthmoor JK I'm pretty sure is a staple of many many mod orders. It's all in one, touches most places players will spend time in, adds a bit of character or utility and frankly it does pretty well. Dawn of skyrim is similar- adds a load of stuff to the 5 cities. Using the two together using a patch leads to very busy cities- I think this is particularly good in Winterhold's grey quarter and Riften but starts to feel a little much in Whiterun. Besides, there was a new solitude overhaul I wanted to try! So in the interest of trying something new, I dropped Dawn of Skyrim and also learnt the tutorial from gamerspoets to make JK "modular". I like Arthmoor's villages/towns philosophy of simply making sure everyone has a place to live- it makes a place bigger while also inherently having a purpose and not bloated. Also after reading the description for each village where he points out which NPCs didn't have a bed of their own I can't forget those facts and it eats away at me at night. The series also touches on many small villages that aren't altered by anything else. Arthmoor's Bring Out Your Dead, Cutting Room Floor, Storefronts, and oblivion gates in cities are also important staples of many load orders, but for the first time I jettisoned Bring Out Your Dead- partly because I realised I never really visited the halls of the dead, partly because it was causing minor compatibility problems and I found it a weak link. Fans of graveyards should not despair- I picked up Sepolcri.
You can also get all of the above mentioned "tangential" mods working with the JK/DoS/Arthmoor set up with patches, as well as big quest mods such as 3dnpcs, or various playerhomes. It's a fine setup, and I would recommend it if anyone hasn't given it a go. My desire to replace was basically FOMO on 2020 mods.
The Competition The Great Cities/Villages - This was the main series of mods that inspired me to try something else this time. Dramatically different in approach to JK or Arthmoor in the settlements the mod author soldierofwar has touched, when I see one of these mods I tend to expect strong boundary marking with big walls and grander "focus point" buildings. It's worth noting the author has said they're going back and redoing some of their older work. Though it comes in an AIO they're also published separately, which is what I ended up having to use and am eternally grateful for.
Cities of the North - Where the Great Cities changes the layout, so this mod radically alters the building shapes to give the settlement a unique shape and fingerprint.
Holds the Cities Overhaul - A huge all in one mod, but actually despite the huge patch centre I got spooked early on in the decision making progress about compatibility and wanted to mix and match some town overhauls with other town overhauls so I'm sorry although it looks great in parts I didn't give this a real look. Fans of Holds will have to look elsewhere.
Expanded Town and Cities - someone pointed out I didn't mention this one at all, and I admit I think I've done missjennabee dirty. It was a staple of my LE load order- you could combine it with Arthmoor and JK in many/all cases, and was modular or all in one. She decided to build again from the ground up in SE, which while coming from a good place of trying to refine her work was actually from my point of view is quite unfortunate as when I moved to SE it wasn't finished, and it ended up being dropped. Even today it's only a few locations, so I had a massive blind spot on it when building my load order and didn't consider it. There are plenty of patches available for it to integrate so check it out. I've mentioned where it's a possibility in each section.
1-settlement overhauls - we'll get to them in turn.
CFTO vs Convenient Carriages - Convenient carriages seems slightly less elegant but easier compatibility when you can't keep in your head straight what you're using. I've switched over, though I'm sure with enough thought I could have kept CFTO.
Mash everything together and hope it sticks So as a greedy mod user all I wanted to do was throw together The Great Cities, Cities of the North for Dawnstar and Morthal, and JK, and stick Arthmoor's villages or the great villages wherever wasn't covered by the resulting fusion blast. There is an "on hold" patch by Xenon but the author directs you to this Monumental effort by Gardden. This author too has moved on from making the patch. I'm pretty sure I did something wrong, or I missed patches, or something. But I'd find JK things in the way of Great City things, or things clipping through walls, and forget trying to get it going with all the ancillary mods... There is simply too much work for one author to do in a short time, and as we see the Great City and Cities of the North get updated in the future you'll see greater problems. It's a good effort, and I realise I'm not helping by pointing out specific things for an author to fix, but it was a while ago sorry. It was here that after a long time trying to get stuff playing nice, I decided that if there was a Great City I fancied trying out, I would just delete JK for that city. I generally found Soldier's work and detailing just as interesting as the JK standard so that would get rid of a compatibility headache. And hey, I wanted to try out new things, right? Out with the old.
Whiterun I've currently got it as just the standard JK with sewers/outlaws refuges. I've been tempted but eventually decided not to go for thing such as perfect or autumnal whiterun- too many trees. I haven't tried Eek's beautiful Whiterun yet- initially I thought it a bit busy but now coming back to it at the end of doing all my other tinkering I've changed my mind. Eli's breezehome has loot freaking out about about deleted navmeshes which I need to investigate so I may yet jump ship on it. As an aside, I adore the nordic carving pair of mods, especially the Dragon Throne Wall. Try it out. I may throw in the horse, undecided.
Riverwood Yep, it's JK again. I like my Riverwood small and sleepy- at one stage I considered Riverwood light add-on but there's a lack of information on what that does. I indulged in Beginner's Shack because you can make it a home for a 3dnpc character. An alternative might be the Expanded towns and cities version, but I didn't investigate.
Riften, Windhelm Honestly I'm in two minds to learn how to make Dawn of Skyrim modular and throw it back on for these two settlements. Snowy AF Windhelm provides Windhelm with a neat solution to giving Windhelm a little more character- throw it under so much white stuff the city of london will be after it (one manhole for skyrim sewers is lost). Riften Docks Overhaul is a welcome "best of" addition to the outskirts of the city- don’t be a idiot like me and make the beta 1.5 file overwrite instead of merge the 1.4 file, it’ll cause any tamerial cell load to crash. In the end I didn't plump for any of the city entrance overhauls for Windhelm, even though the bridge is a bit dull, apart from Windhelm Bridge Seam Fix to stop the very obvious line on the lip of the bridge. Feels like a sledgehammer to crack a nut but it works.
Markarth It's JK. I felt Dawn of Skyrim was almost too busy but not quite, so playing without it will make the city feel a bit cleaner for this playthrough. I loved the beautiful bridge of City entrances overhaul but the compatibility problems reported led me to go for the fixed version instead. Stoop over Markarth is a nice balcony I can observe the forsworn revolution from and I like my Understone Keep rubble swept up thank you very much.
Solitude There's actually more solitude (the city itself) overhauls about now, and honestly I didn't think I would like Enhanced Solitude as much as I do. A patch is available for JK (or JK+DOS) and outlaws refuges, the mod does drop in fps a little but makes up for it in the new shops and bustle. I think the bit I love the most is the paved shop street going up from the outer gate to the solitude worldspace gate. Don't use the JK-Missives patch to make the pair compatible, or you'll lose the board behind a wall. Do use the JK Noticeboard patch. No, I have no idea how Holidays is going to cope with it. If you use skyrim sewers you'll notice the manholes fade in, but as far as I can tell is otherwise useable.
The author also really liked solitude expansion and has both offered a patch for it and a whole new complimentary mod Enhanced Solitude Docks that works off it that does for the docks what enhanced solitude did for the city itself. However, both lagged like crazy for me (there is a patch for majestic mountains in Enhanced Solitude Docks but as I’m running cathedral either the problem is this user being an idiot, or cathedral majestic mountains is different and the patch provided doesn't fix whatever the issue is), and when I tried out solitude expansion some buildings were morphed into the mountains and inaccessible. Please note I was using the Enhanced S – S Expansion patch at the time, so the usual caveat of a missing a patch somewhere is probably true. There's some additional tweaks and other mod integrations available here which you may be interested in, including skyrim sewers replacing an area introduced in enhanced solitude docks.
I've gone for Solitude Docks Updated this time round. It is a more focused overhaul (and distinctly less laggy) with plenty of patches on offer and does well enough for me. Don't forget your frescoes and rectory for holy characters, or harborside for a sea view (though I found it too caused a small amount of lag with my setup). Finally, Centred Blue Palace Throne makes the throne room just that little bit grander.
Falkreath The great city of Falkreath is actually what inspired me to rejig in the first place. I adore that graveyard, especially when paired with Sepolcri (as far as I can work out, the aio great cities patch works for falkreath even if you're just running the individual great city of falkreath). I cut JK- this was a pinch point for the JK-Great city patches, especially around the jarl's longhouse, the blacksmith, and too many big trees in the graveyard. Missives will work, but it'll be half out a low wall, and using the JK-missives patch will move it in front of the execution block. Best just select the offending wall pieces and use the disable console command. I find the opening hall to the jarl's longhouse slightly odd (a tight room that turns into the main hall), but it's a wonderful looking building inside and out (ignore the lighting in the ceiling). I dread to think what cities of the north's falkreath will do to it in the future- I'll never get the damn thing compatible, will I?
Dawnstar I think I've spent more time modding dawnstar than any other location.
This is another classic Great City series example- strong walls, tall Jarl’s palace, busy port. I think pairing it with JK felt like a mistake- there are some tight spots along the upper wall area by the mine and on the docks and the city entrance that I felt the extra touches from both mods overwhelmed rather than added, and I felt it certainly didn’t help the navmesh. There are additional problems if you’re running CFTO with this combination- I got tired trying to work out which patch would move the ferryman back onto the docks, and the carriage out front will refuse to unphase from the wall even with the patch- again, probably my error. Cities of the North goes for a simpler approach to Dawnstar- no planked dock, but the town is shaped by these wonderful cosy Nordic houses that stand out against the snow instead. The Jarl’s longhouse exterior and inn exterior both look fantastic, and the jarl’s interior has this cool raised dais above a feasting hall which all feels very medieval. I haven’t tried to see if characters will feast there instead of the inn, but I really feel they should- someone should make a mod, or it feels like a waste.
The inn is rather large and has an oversized oven as a focal point but I have been getting constant errors in the opining dawnstar “I can’t sleep” scene- the barman is able to speak but I can’t find him even with clipping turned off, and the dark elf doesn’t appear most of the time. I think there might be a bad install or something to check there. The whalebones in the roof are an excellent touch, but all in all I wish I was eating and drinking in the Jarl’s hall. I can’t comment too much about it standalone but I felt it dovetailed well with JK- the JK detailing around the dock, buildings around the mine, and entrance is kept and apart from maybe one narrow squeeze on the walk between the jarl longhouse and the inn it still feels spacious. You can even throw in Arthmoor’s Dawnstar for a slightly bigger town- just head on over to the huge patch collection maintained by Janquel, who I think honestly deserves almost as much praise as the mod authors for his extensive work here. We’ll see them again in Morthal. I feel it’s almost unfair I haven’t tried the Cities of the North – Great City version of Dawnstar (same patch page), especially as I’ve replaced CFTO with Convenient Carriages which was the main headache inducer, but I reckon that’ll be a strong option to look at if you’re looking to reshape dawnstar. I’m sticking with the CotN-JK-Arthmoor version for now, but will admit I slept on the expanded towns and cities version.
Morthal I adore the CotN houses for Morthal. They have this bleached look that makes me weirdly think the trees were felled and lay in a bog before being used. The inn is cosy, the Thaumaturgist’s hut is this weird two story building (suggestion – a fence on the top exterior floor), and the houses tend to have their own sheltered exterior to keep stuff. The guy who wants to be a guard has some practice dummies in his which is some nice environmental narrative stuff. The inn is this weird slightly twisted hall (I think it needs an inn counter area rather than table for the innkeeper but this is probably a design choice), and highmoon hall is beautiful inside and out. I have thrones of skyrim over the default version included here, but if you like your Canadian Native American legends I guess it looks like east coast Native American art. Again, pairing with JK does wonders- a palisade around the entrances ties everything together, and small details here and there make it feel more lived in (even if the blacksmith sometimes gets a bit stuck). The noticeboard/CotN patch offered does work until you add in JK- it then gets hidden slightly behind some crates. I’d recommend either the JK COTN patch removing those crates (there’s plenty in that little nook already) or the noticeboard patch moving it slightly to its left behind the wooden bench. In the meantime, you can simply use the disable command. Bridges of Skyrim adds a bit to it as well.
The Great City of Morthal has some strong ideas about walls (its worn palisade is a superior version of JK’s, and adds a small amount of stone which might be a bit much) and has the nicest drawbridge (if you use bridges of skyrim the patch will overwrite it with the Bridges of Skyrim version which I think is a shame). The lagoon feels a little busier and there’s a whole extra vendor opposite the jarl’s longhouse. As usual, pairing with JK is a mistake- you can barely get down the main street with all the extra decorations and points of interest, never mind the NPCs. Pick one and go for it. However, and remember it may just be me because I’ve never seen anyone else complain, I noticed that the raised entrance to the jarl longhouse will cause guards to phase through the planks and drop down so you’re looking at a torso on guard. The navmesh at the crossroads with the inn leading to the bridge appears to have some problems- guards, children, and people from the opening scene will get caught and bump into each other, even without the missives board present. They will be unable to disentangle themselves at all. Therefore I went with Cities of the North/JK. I didn’t give Morthal Overhaul II or Morthal Ages a go, so apologies for that. In my small testing run abouts I’ve seen the positive impact Denizens of Morthal has even just walking into the inn, so keeping an eye on that one (the author has even replied to this thread with their future plans!).
Winterhold I like my Winterhold overhauls similar to Brexit- a very obvious show of yesterday’s grandeur being yeeted off a cliff where everyone can see the ruins. I guess in real life if this happened a hundred years ago or whatever we wouldn’t be seeing fully formed buildings down the bottom and they would have rebuilt a fair bit of the town but hey, if it looks pretty I’m willing to forgive. This does rule out the various restored winterhold mods (1, 2, 3. Realistic winterhold restores a bit too much for my taste as well. I admit, I haven’t tried out Capital of Winterhold (sorry!) but it’s more the approach I was thinking of. Oddly enough, I really didn’t like the pictures of CotN’s version. The houses themselves are wonderful, like giant mountain goats in blizzards, but there’s not a huge amount of ruin decoration, the town is very sparse, and the fortress while undeniably cool is not what I want in my Windhelm. It’s too… developed and big and cool to have just 3 buildings next to it. With the included JK patch apparently the ruins get spruced up a bit. A patch with the Great City (hello again Janquel) makes it more like CotN than the great cities, which I guess is inevitable but a shame.
Winterhold – Expanded ruins is possibly my favourite set of ruins to add to Winterhold, and comes in several flavours- a full version with walls, ruins, underground maze, extra lore/quest, and player home, or modular. I paired the ruins/walls only version with QaxeIsKaze’s excellent but sadly unavailable Rebuilding Winterhold. However, the Great City of Winterhold has some really nice ruins, and soldierofwar has clearly put in the effort to design the ruined area to have a view of it tumbled down into the sea below. The houses down the cliff look a little too intact but it’s glorious. I’m a big fan of using what is basically the windhelm buildings, they add a lot of character and make the city feel narrower and claustrophobic, and the extra blacksmith clanging makes you feel like there’s still life in the old place yet. I couldn’t work out how to make the great cities – outlaws refuges patch work with just the modular “Great city of Winterhold” file, but I can live with the extra well. It’s not necessarily perfect for me- there doesn’t appear to be a JK patch (so I removed Winterhold from JK as noted above), I’ve hit the reported error of Birna’s shop being closed at all times, and there are a lot of houses that are unoccupied but you can only tell by looking closely and realising the doors are boarded up- perhaps the windows should be as well, or at the very least no lights coming from them? There is also possibly an issue with the crossroads here as well- there are 2 guards that appear to halt and not move from the spot. Strangely the Jarl’s steward will happily wander through- perhaps it’s a guard patrol route choice rather than a navmesh error? The jarl longhouse is suitably impressive by itself but is hidden away in a narrow side street rather than the main street, but I like the new rotated inn building and where it opens out to. Again, I seem to remember problems with CTFO but maybe that was my end not figuring out the patches, but moving to Convenient carriages solves it.
There’s a new alternative about that I have in fact gone at time of writing– ClefJ’s Winterhold- I need to run the Better Dynamic Snow patcher and had a problem with floating embers in the inn from embersxd, but it’s a strong design that’s had some thought behind it with a spectacular central fountain square, a redesigned jarl palace (though the opening foyer is surprisingly small), a tucked out the way player home, and a moderately expanded amount of shops on offer including a clothing and a blacksmith vendor . Even the houses themselves have had a small makeover that brings something unique. I had a minor problem in that the embersxd patch that is allegedly there doesn’t seem to download, but I submitted a question to find out if it was my end or not. I also noticed Birna was closed in this mod too. There are other patches that I believe are in development- missives is perfectly usable but oddly placed in front of some irrelevant stairs at present which will be rectified.
Raven Rock Honestly there’s not much out there for Raven Rock. Quaint Raven Rock add lots of visually interesting things around town- I like the combined statues of the daedra the most. I just went for that.
Dragon Bridge This is another Great Cities mod I was really excited to try out. I like the design philosophy behind it- great big walls befitting a strategic point, and the addition of the jetty while not very functional really breaks it up and makes it more visually interesting from the other bank. The picnic table on top of one of the walls is a favourite spot of mine too. The conversion of the Penitus Oculatus barracks into what almost appears to be a chapter house with a church-like tower from the outside adds a bit of variety and I have grown to like, while the legionary on guard in the very fortified bridge section of the town really makes you feel like you’ve walked into a heavily guarded fortress. I feel there is a navmesh or guard route issue as I keep spotting them bumping into walls, but they free themselves after a while. This really doesn’t work with JK, even with the patches I tried out- have a look at the execution block area or the inn’s outside area if you don’t believe me. I miss JK putting the blacksmith near the Penitus Oculatus barracks, but it’s a minor quibble and is worth the trade off. I’ve noticed Skyrim 3d rocks makes a rock under the blacksmith pop up through the decking (a simple disable command fixes it). A final minor quibble is that maybe the wolf that’s very close to the city should be disabled because it just makes npcs run around and freak even if they easily deal with it. Although JK is out and should be disabled, the Arthmoor compatibility patch included on the page works flawlessly. This is what I’m running with at the moment.
Ivarstead As we move to the smaller settlements, you can really tell that Soldierofwar is trying new ideas and has maybe increased their skills. There’s no huge wall like the great city collection, but suddenly Ivarstead has an impressive temple to Kynareth- which really makes sense as you consider it’s the last major stop on a pilgrimage route before the big trek up the mountain, and in many cases I bet the last stop (we know not everyone goes up the mountain). It’s based off stave churches in scandanavia and has a wonderful interior- the author has been asked a few times if it’s not too tall but they've replied several times (including to me) that it’s in proportion to real life, so who are we to argue? Besides, it’s the last bit of flat ground on the trail before High Hrothgar, if a jarl wanted to build something big Ivarstead is the place to do it. All the buildings have had a makeover, and I’m a big fan of the bridges and lake jetty in particular. The interior of the inn is also changed to match the exterior, and reminds me a bit of some of the city of the north inn interiors. There’s so much character added to this small village, I knew I had to give this mod a shot. There’s also an impressive patch collection which includes a JK patch!
Rorikstead JK’s Skyrim/Arthmoor actually turned this small farming community into a relatively heavily fortified and busy settlement- I think it’s the extra shops JK added. I don’t know if the Great City version of the village was supposed to invoke a viking D-style enclosure fort/settlement (it’s a thing, according to a book I read), but Rorikstead almost perfectly fits the profile. It’s got a feasting hall for the lord which looks spectacular from the outside, and a couple of key buildings (the inn, though in real life this would probably be an armoury or stables) inside, and several dwellings and farms on the outside. There’s not quite as much farming added as in JK/Arthmoor or extended towns and cities, but it still all looks very prosperous. There’s even a ruined house which must be some poor horse thief’s. The inside of the hall is surprisingly small- I was looking for an upstairs for where Rorik slept. It’s also again a pity this wonderful lord’s hall is not going to be used by the NPCs (again, tell me if I’m wrong) because everyone will pile into the inn. Ah well- it’s a fortified small farming village with a real visual identity, rather than a middle skyrim falkreath/dawnstar. I love it.
Kynesgrove, Darkwater crossing, Soljun's Sinkhole, and Old Hroldan The first 3 are basically Arthmoor exclusives (Note: Someone pointed out Expanded Towns and Cities for Darkwater Crossing, sorry)- I’m actually a little surprised there’s not many mods for Kynesgrove- dragon mound, mine, proximity to Windhelm, main quest… seems like a few things you could work with there. I have seen that the Great Town mod is going to release at some stage though, so looking forward to that. Soljun’s Sinkhole is actually touched on by the Great Village of Old Hroldan, as it changes the farmhouse that makes it up to match the tileset introduced in that mod to keep it consistent. These buildings are very distinctive- the inn especially is unrecognisable and novel with its 2nd floor main common room. The ruined wall with the talos statue looks striking as well, and an attempt to change what was in vanilla basically an isolated inn in the reach with the lore of the location, but more emphasis is on the present day village than the old fortress that used to be here. The other mod I’ve tried (and have used previously) Old Hroldan Ruins does the opposite- it makes a vast set of ruins that dominates the road to Markarth with its tall towers and relatively heavy guard contingent. It comes in two flavours- ruins (and monument) only, and “full” which adds a shop in a ruined house, a recently abandoned house you can take over (with a crafting basement) and a very extensive dungeon of ghosts that if I recall correctly fought against Tiber Septim. I always seem to get the forgemaster’s fingers stuck there. The whole place just looms out the fog if the weather is inclined to be dramatic and you get a real sense of people scratching a living in the ruins rather than it being a thriving settlement. But the real success story about this location is that thanks to the efforts of that amazing person Janquel and cheesetoast8 every mod mentioned in this section is compatible. Everybody lives/mods, Rose. Everybody lives.
Shor's Stone Can you remember the last time you went to Shor’s Stone? I can’t either. Although I like the different building style (I swear these minor villages buildings are getting closer to CotN standard of differentiation every day) I was at first put off by the addition of Fallowstone Hall, as I am unfamiliar with ESO and thought the idea of a companions outpost in this tiny village in such an epic-looking clifftop fortress was too much. But the hall itself is rather small (though it has a vault and items etc), the fortress is in ruins and made of this very shetlands style piled stone, so I’m willing to give it a chance over Arthmoor’s functional village this time. I may change my mind. Once again Janquel has patches, though they appeared to have trouble with working out what to do with Elder Scrolls Online Imports.
Karthwasten The great town offers the same Breton-inspired buildings seen in Old Hroldan, but also expands the town’s functionality and makes the hall actually interesting enough to have been pointed out way back in Arena. Yes, there’s patches by the usual suspect.
Mixwater Mill These are perhaps candidates for the prettiest Great Village/town buildings. An unfussy extension of a small lumber camp that is once again serviced by Janquel. This in contrast to the slightly more involved and extensive Mixwater Mill Reborn.
Final thoughts Well, there you have it- a month or two of stubbornness descending into madness. There is a wealth of options for refreshing your cities in skyrim that wasn’t there a few years ago, and with lockdown continuing in many cases I’m excited to see what new stuff will be put together in the coming few months. I hope it was both useful for some people either wondering what’s available or trying to narrow down their options, and a cautionary tale for those trying to have it all. I may end up having to change some of this as well- I haven't even started adding quest mods! I might end up having to add cheesemod for everyone after all...
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