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Why Diablo 2 itemization is great starting point for D4
- "Item drops were too low." - I personally disagree with that(especially after 1.13 patch), but boosting loot drops is not a big problem. With enough magic find/efficiency you were finding a lot of uniques. I belive that p8 drops are on point when it comes to solo experience(and I played quite a lot of 'solo self found' on p8 drops) and I would personally use this as reference point in Diablo 4.
- "Diablo 2 runewords were overpowered." - Runeword system itself wasnt overpowered, but some runeword items clearly got skipped in QA testing(if there were any, remember that this game was created 20 years ago). The original rune words batch were on point with balancing in my opinion(http://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/runewords-original.shtml). Runewords that came after that were bad and trully lacked balancing. There is easy way to improve it by simply balancing the gear properly.
- "Enigma was must have." - Ignoring the point presented above, enigma creation was caused by imbalanced skill called teleport. Coldownless mobility skill that passed the walls,rifts, edges and any other obstacle was simply too strong in a game where other classes lacked any movement ability. That's why enigma was there - to balance out classes. There won't be similar issue in Diablo 4 I'm sure. And if there will be - balancing the characters themselves is the key.
- "Charms were bad." - Yes indeed, Charm system was deeply flawed. If it would be up to me I wouldnt like them to return unless they got seriously changed.
- "Most items you dropped were garbage." - Yes, most items that dropped for you were junk that you sell or dont pick at all. That is the common problem in arpg's. There is the same problem with diablo 3 itemization. Important thing to note is that Diablo 2 uniques were constructed to be decent for certain level. You dont expect angelic sabre that can drop almost right from the start to carry you through whole content. Diablo 3 have similar thing, but it got handled by simply upscaling the items to maximum once you reached max level - and even there most items were junk that you will never use. Diablo 2 handled it partially through Horadric Cube formula, that let you upgrade the item to higher type(best example is https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Bloodtree_Stump ). Another way Diablo 2 handled it is that some items can be considered as an endgame ones even thought they are low level ones. Examples: https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Bloodfist , https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Magefist_(Diablo_II)) , https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Hotspur, https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Goblin_Toe and many others, great examples are ~~40ilvl items like herald zakarum, jalalal mane, areat face etc). Solution to that problem D4 can use might be some kind of drop system that tend to drop items more 'accurate' to your level and character class.
- "Diablo 2 uniques don't feel as powerfull as Diablo 3."- Most uniques dont feel as powerfull in Diablo 2 that is true. There is no highly emphasized 'player empowerment' factor here. There are however items that do that job. Dont try to tell me that Chaos rw( https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Chaos_Rune_Word ) didnt make you feel powerfull when you could use whirlwind as your assassin. Or wielding beast( https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Beast_Rune_Word ) and making a bearsorc. I personally like as it is because those kind of items are build defining and if you create too many of them then build variations start to feel the bland(because those items are obligatory). I'm not opposed to improving that further. Player have to feel good about his character. Another thing is that item not always have to be 'flashy' to feel powerfull. I still remember how good i felt while handling magic 6/40 javelins on my javazon - they are not flashy but they were strong and super rare - that gave me the better feeling than ANY diablo 3 item ever.
- "D2 items are glorified statsticks" - Im not sure I understand this argument... Diablo 3 items are statsticks aswell plus the unique affix(and there is or was a lot of those that didnt had any). Please explain it to me.
- "Particular items feel like must own items(i.e. Shako, Enigma, hoto etc)." - There are some items that work like that and they deserve the nerfs(again, lack of QA testing). However beside few items like enigma, items are not irreplaceable. For example beloved Shako can be easly swapped for better or worse items(sometimes shako is not even best in slot) - for example: powerfull rare(2sk 20 fcr adds) or magic(3sk 20 fcr) circlet, other unique(Crown of Ages, Griffon) or runeword(lore, delirium - yes i know it got downside but let me talk about it little bit later). Diablo 3 DONT HAVE THAT. Thats beacuse Diablo 3 is balanced around items instead of skills. That creates the issue that if there is a build you have to own exact items and without that items the build WONT work!
- "Physical classes were worse than casters." - This is very... broad topic. Caster classes due to them not scaling off weapon are usually better especially early on. However in the endgame 'physical' classes can possibly outclass casters(bowzon is an example). I personally love how it works in theory - casters are stronger early game when they got worse gear, and with time they get more equal(or even worse). That how it's handled in many rpg's and it more or less works. HUGE problem however is the fact that Diablo 2 classes dont have AOE physical abilities! Yes thats right. There is no aoe abilities for that classes. There are few exceptions like multishot bowzon but overall they simply lack aoe clear potential. More balancing around castephysical classes and actuall AOE skills(or other means of obtaining it like jewels/runes/gems giving AOE attacks) can solve this issue to the big extend, another thing that improve this here is stats like crushing blow that is number one stat against bosses(i dont like that stat, its imbalanced btw). Another important thing to note is that diablo 2 provide caster possibilities for every class - druid got tornado, paladin got hammers, assassin got traps, amazon got javelins and barbarian got warcries(although singbarb deserve a buff). I personally think that this is better way than mage type classes running around with 2handed axes, overall feeling that your mage is generic warrior and strive for weapon damage only.
- "Good Rares/Magic/Crafts are extreme rare" - Yes they are, but thats the point! Not every item of this type will be good, most of those item types will be bad. However there is one in a thousand chance that one of those items will be BETTER than any other item in a game. Examples? https://i.imgur.com/0KEINOG.png, https://i.imgur.com/VkzENmH.png, https://i.imgur.com/Y66rl1i.png and many many others. That is the wonderfull thing. Rares that usually are not as strong as top items beside rare scenarios(but there are this kind of scenarios). To the extend Blizzard can even use the same 'item stat rolling' guidelines like they introduced in Reaper of Souls.
- "You had to pick up tons of junk for crafting" - I dont mind changing crafting formula. The outcome of the crafting is what is important for me. And I was satisfied what crafting was giving you.
- "There is huge amount of unimportant drops that are creating visual clusterf*ck" - I guess its common arpg problem but well.. easy solution is to provide a player with some kind of loot filtering system. Another solution is to not display text but icons(like d3 highlighting system did). Harder solution is fixing the problem but I dont feel it's absolutely necessary if there are filtering possibilities easly accessible.
- "Speed breakpoints are archaic." - IAS/FCFHR breakpoints are caused by the fact that Diablo 2 was runing in 25 frames per second. Those breakpoints were simply 'reaching' next frame. That is caused because how Diablo 2 worked, not because of itemization. On the another hand FCFHR breakpoints were interesting and I felt good about them. That is because you had a choice with it. You could 'try' to reach next breakpoint or go for more damage/survivability/utility instead of it. And that was interesting compared to what is commonly used aka people spam that speed stat.
- "I don't want to wear white items" - You never use white items in D2 latageme. The only time you somewhat wear white items is when you use a runeword that is completely different type of item. Thats how it works and thats good imo. I do think that it would be better if runewords would have 'special' item colour to distinct them further from whites. If you meant that you dont want to use 'lower tier' kind of item(like magic, rare, white) then I guess we can agree to disagree - possibility to wear any type of item is much better for me.
- "Diablo 3 items got many more variations than fixed Diablo 2 items" - yes, Diablo 3 items are random to the extend, while Diablo 2 uniques are static. That creates more variations of the same item. That is however 'fake' diversity because in reality everyone persue the same stats and noone is going for unique things. Also every item slot have the same stats.
And now let me talk about some 'advantages' aka good things that D2 system provided.
- You can replace most of your items. Beside few build defining and and some overpowered items(op ones should be nerfed) used got creativity to choose what he want to use. The player dont feel forced to use certain item. While I play Diablo 3 I feel that I have to use certain items to take advantage of the build im striving for. I dont have that feeling in Diablo 2. For example I'm lategame light sorc and here are my viable possibilities that i can choose from: Helmet - Griffon, Shako, Rare circlet 2sorc skills 20 fcr adds, Magic circlet 3 light skills 20 fcr Amulet - Mara's kaleidoscope, Rare amulet 2sorc skills 10 fcr adds, Magic amulet 3 ligh skills 10fcr(or 100 life), Crat amulet 2 sorc skills 20 fcr adds, Tal rasha amulet Ring - Stone of Jordan, Bul Kathos Wedding Band, Crafted or rare ring with 10 fcr and adds(strenght,mana,life,res etc), magic ring with 10 fcr and 90 mana Belt - Arachnid mesh, Crafted caster belt with strenght/mana/fhr, verdungo, Tal rasha belt Gloves - Magefists, Trangoul gloves, Frostburns, Bloodfists(only if u dont need fcmana) Boots - War Travelers, Waterwalks, Sandstorm Treks, Rare boots with triple res and other stats, hotspurs, silkweaves, crafted caster boots with high mana and res Armor - Enigma, Chains of Honor, Skin of the Vipermagi, Ormus Robes(with skill you use) even Tal rasha armor Weapon - Hoto, Eschuta's Temper, Rare orb +2sorc skills +3lighting 20 fcr and adds, Magic orb +3 light skills +3lighting 20 fcr, Occulus Shield - Spirit Shield, Lidless Wall, Whistan Shield, Stormshield All items here beside shield slot dont have clear winner that is significantly better than others. That's huge amount of possibilities. I never experienced even fraction of similar diversity in Diablo3.
- Every item type matters. I talked about it enough - even seemingly pointless normal(white) items have its point and indirectly you can wear them(through runewords). That is great thing. Runewords are seemingly most powerfull but usually hard to farm, rares magics and crafts usually are junk but if you are lucky you can get absolutely best item, uniques and sets are solid'ish. Every item type can be used potentially. Salvaging for mat's is not 'being used'.
- Items got their own downsides. Yes, that's it. Not every item is providing "positive" attributes. There are items that provide bad ones - and its great! Why? Because the player got enchanced choice! You get an item that is better than average but there are negative stats as tradeoff. Are the positive stats make up the negative one? It's for player to decide. Some examples to explain further: Andariel face - give player great dps stats but negates fire resistances - is it worth it? You can negate fire res with res jewel/um rune/ral rune but then you waste socket on nagating the negative effect. Occulus - 3 sorc skills, 30 fcr, magic find, vitality, energy and resistances. Add to that it's quite cheap/easy to find item(level around 40 - that is nightmare). No other item for sorc can provide similar amount of utility stats like this one(not even hoto). But oh wait - Occulus got chance to cast teleport on getting hit and that teleport moves you to random place. That can be quite annoying and much more importantly you can die if occulus teleports you into pack of mobs. If you are HC then it might be serious problem. But its for you to decide. Delirium - 2 all skills, some vitality and magic find. Sounds not so great right? But it is a runeword. You can build this runeword on class specific item to boost this item further. And instead of +2skills you got +2skills +3tornado druid helmet. Thats huge damage boost for tornado, especially for the price of lem ist io(if ist dropps from hellfire forge then you are basically set). However there is drawback... If you get hit you can turn into a doll that cannot cast any ability and need to return to town and wait. Thats a tradeoff that you need to consider.
- There are other downsides to consider beside the ones i listed. All items got requirements and certain rarity(and rarity means item value usually). Every item got level requirement and some items got strenght or dexterity(or both) requirement. Strenght and dexterity requirement forces a player to choose if it's worth it to go out of his 'comfort' stat zone(aka maxing vitality) and waste stats in order to use item - easy example is wizzard spike that cost 75 dexterity that you usually do not invest into(unless u go block). Remember there are limited free respecs so you need to think carefully about the future. Rarity/value of the item is additional downside to the certain items. If item is so hard to find/to buy then is it worth it? A lot of times powerfull items are more rare thus harder to obtain, so maybe player can settle on little bit worse item and focus on other things? Examples? You are sorc and you dropped Ber rune. Should you wait and try to find Jah for Enigma? Or maybe its better to be satsified with Chains of Honor that is also good runeword. You could also sell the Ber rune and buy yourselve decent amount of other equipment thhat would give you immidiete and bigger boost compared to enigma itself.
I'm not saying that diablo 2 system is 'the system', its far from it. But what diablo 2 itemization system achieves or rather tries to achieve is what I think is pretty good. Theres so many ways Blizzard can innovate itemization. For example look at D2 mod called Path of Diablo that with one feature - corruptions created something entertaining. Sometimes monsters drop corruption orbs. You can cube it with item without socket(aka no runewords alllowed) and it can give certain bonus to that item, do nothing or destroy the item. Usually the best bonus is sockets(random amount). Such a simple change makes the gameway more interesting.. whats better enigma or viper with 4 sockets? Death cleaver 6sockets or grief? Grandfather 6socket or BotD in warpike?
Ok thats it, Thanks for listening to my ted talk. Sorry again for such a long text.
Diablo talent guide (with all talents discussed)
Diablo isn't an upper-tier hero at the moment, but he is a powerful team-fighter in the right hands and, most importantly, extremely fun. This is a talent guide for playing Diablo the way that I feel he is at his best. In my opinion, Diablo is not a tank, but a full-time peeler who serves up squishies on a platter for your team to get easy kills during team fights. He is also great at punishing those who are even slightly out of position and chasing fleeing enemies.
I want to forewarn you that I am by no means an elite player. I primarily play solo QM. I am mostly seeking feedback on my ideas rather than positing the #1, definitive guide to Diablo. I want your feedback. Go ahead and tear me a new one ;-).
Recommended: Soul Feast
Soul Feast provides 300% health regen at 100 souls. At level 20 and 100 souls this talent raises your health regen from (2.1875 + 20 * 0.5195) 12.5775 to ( * 3) 37.7325. This is not an insane amount of additional regen, but in your role as peelechaser you will rarely be in the center of a fight, but rather on the outskirts of the battle re-positioning and seeking opportunities to serve your team easy kills. Therefore, you should have a lot of "up-time" and this little bit of regen will go a long way towards your overall sustainability. This talent is particularly useful on large maps where battles tend to drag out and major team fights are more sparse.
Runner up: Devil's Due
Devil's Due is somewhat simliar to Soul Feast in that they both contribute to you being in the game longer, however Devil's Due requires you to die to make use of it. Some people will argue that if you never die, then it's a wasted talent, but in most serious matches you will not have zero deaths so this is unrealistic. My main problem with Devil's Due is that a proper Diablo should be with his team the majority of the time, so if you are dead it is likely that your whole team is dead. In this scenario, why would you want to come back to life early, only to wait around while everyone else revives? Overall, it is a viable talent pick since it can help for the occasional accidental death, and allows you to retain some souls if you had more than 60, but does not match up to Soul Feast if you are playing Diablo the right way.
Not recommended: Block, Overwhelming Force
Block is trying to make Diablo a tank, which he is not. When you are in battle, your massive health pool should allow you to serve your teammates an opportunistic kill, and get back out so you can re-position & repeat. Block isn't terrible, especially against a high auto-attack comp, but it is outclassed by the sustain provided by Soul Feast.
Overwhelming Force makes Shadow Charge into something you don't really want. There are two ways to use the Q & E combo. Q into a fleeing enemy and E them back OR E an enemy that's out of position or on the front-line and Q them into your team. Overwhelming force is a hindrance in the first case since it pushes them further towards their escape (unless it secures the kill), and barely helps in the second case. Therefore it is not very useful overall.
Recommended: Fire Devil
Many people complain that Fire Stomp is worthless and buffing it through Fire Devil just wastes a talent, however buffing damage is only part of what it accomplishes. Fire Devil turns Fire Stomp into an effective waveclear (which helps you accumulate souls), helps you clear creeps/mercs that are bunched up near your walls, helps take merc camps, clears Zagara's tumors, and uncloaks Zeratul. Also, at level 20, Fire Stomp deals (39 + 9 * 20) 219 damage, radiating an additional (12 + 2 * 20) 52 damage every second for 6 seconds with Fire Devil, so, in addition to the aforementioned uses, it does contribute to overall damage. The damage is especially nice immediately after executing a Q&E combo, since the victim will be in proximity as you body-block them. Overall it is a versatile talent choice that outclasses the others at this tier.
Runner-up: Demonic Strength
Demonic Strength is great for helping Diablo do what he should always be trying to do: secure kills for your team. Whether you Q+E, or E+Q, the additional slow will just make it that much more effective. You could argue that it is better than Fire Devil, since it helps your teammates secure the kill rather than relying on your own, limited damage to do so. However, Fire Devil gives you more versatility.
Not recommended: Soul Catcher, Essence of the Slain
Soul Catcher simply does too little too slowly. 1 soul at level 20 equates to to (0.0015 * 6050) 9.075 max life (and (0.03 * 37.7325) 1.13 regen if you took Soul Feast) that you will receive every 4 seconds. This just isn't enough considering how easily you can acquire souls without this talent. The only argument I can make for it is that it reduces your reliance on clearing a few creep waves after death, but I don't think it's enough.
Essence of the Slain fixes a problem that Diablo does not have. If you play him as a guerilla he will spend more time positioning himself than simply spamming abilities and, therefore, does not typically run into mana issues. Considering the upcoming buff, I am definitely considering this talent, though I have doubts that it will compete with Fire Devil
Recommended: Battle Momentum
Generally speaking, Battle Momentum gives you something you don't need on a condition that you will not satisfy. Ideally, a carefully planned Q&E combo should result in a kill (by you or your team), at which point you've done your job and won't need it again until it's natural cooldown has expired. Additionally, you will not do a lot of auto-attacking since that's not really your role and your auto-attack is weak. Overall it's not quite as bad as I'm making it sound, since the 12 second cooldown on Q&E combo is kind of high and things don't always go as planned. Also note that it can reduce Apocalypse's high cooldown, however that should generally be up in time for each battle anyway. Battle Momentum is my current go-to despite its flaws.
Not recommended: Soul Steal, From the Shadows, Devastating Charge
From the Shadows adds stun in a very conditional way. Shadow Charging an enemy into a wall slightly limits the value of the ability since you get the stun, but not the displacement. Further, it can be cumbersome to plan Charge or Overpower such that it will end at a wall (though it may be worth practicing). Finally, if you are fighting in tight quarters (near unpathable locations) you are already at an advantage because both ultimates excel there. That said, more stun is more stun - it contributes greatly to your goals as Diablo.
At level 20 Diablo natively has 6050 life. With 100 souls, Soul Steal increases this life gain from (0.0015 * 6050 * 100) 907.5 to (0.0015 * 6050 * 1.66 * 100) 1506.45, contributing a total of 598.95. That is a decent amount of life, but remember that it's the best case scenario (worst is 0). Many people consider Soul Steal a given, however I'm dubious that they really understand how much additional life they're getting. 66% sounds like a TON until you realize it only acts on the bonus you are already receiving.
Devastating Charge addresses an issue Diablo does not have. You should not be Shadow Charging into a group of enemies (initiating), but rather away from them (peeling), so you won't be near the opposing team at the termination of your Shadow Charge. In the event that you are using Shadow Charge to chase a fleeing enemy, he will often be too out of mana or die too quickly to CC you (but of course you will use discretion here). Devastating Charge therefore grants you immunity to CC when you need it least and would only be useful if you are using Charge wrong.
Recommended: Apocalypse, Lightning Breath
This one comes down to personal preference as both are viable. I have not experimented enough with Lightning Breath to give it a fair critique. Lightning Breath has the weakness of pinning you to your location while you channel it. Since you should not be playing as a tank (don't overestimate your tankiness) it can be very dangerous and situational. It excels in tight quarters, but so does Apocalypse. What I like about Apocalypse is its global effectiveness (you don't need to be right up in the frontlines), its ability to pin enemies that are fleeing as a group (if they are in the right formation you can easily get 1 or 2 of them), and the versatility of the added stun. Apocalypse requires very precise timing, however, and must be practiced if it's to be relied on. As a final point, the level 20 upgrade to Apocalypse is unnecessary, which allows you to take Lord of Terror, whereas the upgrade to Lightning Breath is worthwhile and gives you some options at level 20. Overall I much prefer Apocalypse, but can see the merit of both.
Recommended: Siphon the Dead
Siphon the Dead should almost always be taken as it adds significantly to your sustainability. Playing as a guerilla rather than a tank gives you plenty of time to use it and you should do so continuously. At level 20, this essentially adds (6050 * 0.156 / 3 / 30) 10.49 to your health regen with the added bonus that it is "front-loaded" (i.e. the 10.49 regen is an average across 10 seconds, but you actually receive this healing in the first 3 seconds, so it's more instantaneous that mere health regen).
Runner-up: Spell Shield
I could see taking this if your opponent has a lot of ability DPSers that you are having trouble dealing with. Again, you are not a tank, but against the right comp I could see this talent competing with the sustainability granted by Siphon the Dead.
Not recommended: Life Leech, Firestorm
Life Leech is a bad fit for Diablo since you do not deal enough damage nor do you use enough basic attacks to make good use of it. I am seriously re-considering Life Leech, since it enables you to 1v1 anyone easily, however i doubt it can compete with StD
Fire Stomp is of limited use to Diablo anyway as his role is not DPS. Buffing Fire Stomp via the Firestorm talent is simply not as good as giving Diablo more sustain, which directly contributes to Diablo's primary goal of peeling and CC'ing in team fights.
Recommended: Imposing Presence
Imposing Presence contributes to your survivability against auto attackers, which is far better than the alternatives at this tier.
Not recommended: Rampage, Continuous Overpower, Domination
The damage portion of Rampage is primarily useful for clearing waves or killing an enemy that you've chased down with Q + E, however Diablo's auto attack damage is low enough that this bonus is not incredibly effective. The movement speed is nice after an E + Q since you will often be relocating, however 2 seconds of 20% movement speed is not very much. Note that these two effects work against each other - you are either auto-attacking or relocating, not both.
Having two charges of Overpower is clunky. Peeling more than one hero is self-defeating, since the idea is to give your team just one enemy to focus down. Furthermore, a proper peel requires a Shadow Charge as well. What this talent does is gives you a proper peel plus a clunky, half-peel that you will likely die trying to pull off. The only good use I can see is to Overpower more than one hero behind your gates but that's very ambitious. This talent is especially useless if the Battle Momentum skill was taken at level 7. I am reconsidering my view on Overpower, since I originally neglected the possibility of a Q+E+Q combo. It is risky but if you can pull it off, it may be an important move for Diablo
As for Domination, your Shadow Charge should not be on cooldown after using Overpower. This talent suffers from the same problems as Continuous Overpower.
Recommended: Lord of Terror, Hellstorm
Lord of Terror contributes to your damage & healing, what's not to like? This talent obviously scales with the number of enemies hit. Since you will not typically be in the center of a teamfight, it takes good timing and should be used opportunistically. Some good times to use it include any tight-quarters fights as you go for the peel, or if you misjudge a peeling opportunity and find yourself surrounded, or if you go to peel and realize that the enemy team is fleeing, or simply as one more source of damage to secure a kill on a single fleeing enemy. Basically, even if you don't hit for its full potential, it's hard to pass up another source of damage and health and it has the potential to be devastating.
I don't have enough experience with Lightning Breath to speak on Hellstorm, but it clearly adds significant damage & range so if you're going that route it might be a good idea.
Runner-up: Bolt of the Storm
Bolt is fantastic for closing the distance on a low health, retreating hero as well as for reatreating yourself. However, Diablo's play style already lends itself to chasing and is not typically in the center of battle enough to need an emergency retreat, so it's kind of win-more.
Not recommended: Dying Breath
This is just not worth it. The lowered cooldown is nice, but if you use Apocalypse judiciously, it has enough uptime to be used at a single, key moment in every team fight anyway. The dying part is not very useful since Apocalypse must be timed well. This talent is especially bad if Battle Momentum was taken at level 7.