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MDI: Potential Improvements and Suggestions
for the people that don’t know me, I’m Deepshades, a Warlock in Method that’s played for several years in the high end PvE scene with the Kil’jaeden World 1st kill as my biggest accomplishment. Throughout the expansion I’ve done a lot of high Mythic+ Keys. (World 1st 21 with Lazel, Mandrai, Fragnance, Gingi & Baeshades) I say this so that people have a understanding of my knowledge/skill in the game.
Firstly I’d like to thank Blizzard for finally giving PvE a showcase like they did with PvP for many years. I think the first two weekends were already a blast for many people and I’m looking forward to see the finals in the future.
I’m going to put this entire thread into two bigger sections, the Mythic Dungeon Invitational and Mythic+ as a whole in the future. Starting with the MDI since it is the main focus. My intention of writing about this is to get some spotlight on this thread and try to push the MDI in a even better direction because I think right now is the time that decides the direction WoW PvE esport goes and if it will be successful.
I understand it was the first event of that kind and Blizzard most likely saw it as a test-run. They probably have already their own ideas in mind and I am just trying to give some input as person who would himself like to participate in future events and also as a spectator. A few friends and I spoke a lot about this and collected some ideas that we wanted to share.
Good idea would be also the Champions League system from football. Each region has a minimum amount of slots that is getting increased by performances of the past tournaments/qualifiers.
Qualifiers Timing: Timings should be better placed. At least around 50-100 guilds should be done in their progression before Proving Grounds starts.
Tournament System: I think a better solution would be the Double Elimination Bracket. Mistakes can really easy happen even to the best teams and right now you’re knocked immediately out of the tournament. To give an good example would be this years Dota 2 TI. The team that in the end won the entire tournament was knocked out in the first Upper Bracket game and made their entire way through the Lower Bracket into the Grand Final and won. The same could easily happen in World of Warcraft and it would also give the entire tournament a lot more games which is exciting for the viewers.
Voting: Perhaps rather than just voting maps, it would be also interesting to have teams voting for specific affixes.
Class Restriction: In my opinion it shouldn’t be allowed to run two times the same role of a class. To see two Arms Warrior or two Subtlety Rogues is not exciting and makes the entire thing more boring. You want to see different compositions and what teams can pull off with their individual class compositions. Combinations like Enhancer and Elemental or Feral and Balance should be allowed since the specializations differ vastly.
6th player: I think a 6th player should be allowed for each team like they do in PvP tournaments with a 4th. It’s really hard to cover all DPS specializations with 3 players and it would give a lot more freedom in class choices for a team. As well as in the case of a player having internet or any other problems the team doesn’t have to forfeit and can swap the other player in.
Spectator PoV: I don’t know how much Blizzard can do in World of Warcraft in terms of the spectating so I am just saying what I would like to see.
Seeing the actual players view would be perfect. Especially for big pulls it's interesting to see how a tank for example is handling it. If this is not possible with the current UI it would be at least good to show the most important offensive and defensive cooldowns of players like in PvP. Example as a hunter: Aspect of the Wild, Bestial Wrath, Artifact Ability, Aspect of the Turtle, Feigh Death and Exhilaration.
Seeing the legendaries or at least trinkets would be also really interesting throughout the dungeon. Many classes change depending on the pulls what legendaries/trinkets they have equipped and people are interested in the optimisation or what top players do to copy it for themselves.
The usual "CC Tracker" Weak Aura would be also good to display for interrupts/stuns/silences. Massgrips and other abilities of that kind would be also good to see.
Seeing the healing meter would be also interesting for the majority of the viewers.
Caster: I think the casting was good but could be improved vastly. First of all a good thing would to have either a duo casting lineup with a caster (Healingstat/Rich) and a community person with some sort of knowledge (Slootbag) or I would really like to see a tri casting lineup with a caster (Healingstat/Rich), community guy/popular streamer (Slootbag) and a actual pro (recommendation: Rogerbrown). In a lineup like this you could have the caster pacing the discussion and leading the conversation, the community guy doing jokes and giving comments to what is said or sharing their own experiences and the pro actually giving proper insight about what is actually happening and why. I felt there were a few times that didn’t really get commentated good or false information was being given out. The current casting missed some insight into very high end M+. I wanna mention again: everything is my own opinion and overall the casting was fine. (Shoutout to my boy Slootbag for his puns!) Perhaps getting actual people from the tournament that got already knocked out or are not playing at this given time would be interesting as well. It is done in many other games. I don’t know if this would be done with programs like Skype but I am sure Blizzard would find a way.
EDIT: To prevent confusion. I do think the casters have knowledge of the game and doing a good job. I would just like to see some more people that are doing high M+ on a regular base. They could bounce ideas of each other and putting the casting in a even more in-depth mode.
For the people think that I am not acknowledging Sloots skills is wrong. I purely put him into the "community" category due him having an insanely big stream. I really think him and someone else with a lot of knowledge would synergize super well together. So please stop writing comments about me trying to flame him.
Analyzing: After games it would be ideal to have a couple of analyzers to go over how each dungeon went for the teams and perhaps show overall damage/healing done in brief. They could also go into detail of some more specific pulls the teams did and showing things like damage done on like Fel Explosives for example.
Post game interviews: I think it would be really interesting to hear the winners opinion after the games and to ask them how they felt about their own performance of the games. I don’t want to exclude the losing team but I think it is generally speaking pretty rude to do it.
Affixes: I think affixes going forward should be something interactive, things like Fel Explosives, Sanguine or Quaking. Affixes that block you from doing actual cool pulls like Bolstering & Bursting are usually disliked by the community and should be removed.
Tyrannical/Fortified: Flat damage/health increases are kinda boring but if Blizzard wants to keep these kind of affixes they should be reworked. Tyrannical shouldn’t force you into specific class compositions because certain abilities get overpowered. Good example is the Felguard boss in Arcway. The “Wicked Slam” is a ability that can’t really get played around and for a class like Shaman it’s really hard/impossible to survive on high Mythic+.
I think by introducing M+ seasons like in PvP, World of Warcraft could hold a lot of subscribers that wouldn’t be bored. Right now it feels like many people don’t play M+ outside of farming traits for progression or doing their weekly chest. My idea is to introduce seasons in Mythic+ as well.
Blizzard could make an actual Leaderboard and all teams get ranked that compete in a given seasons Mythic+. At the end a certain % gets a reward like a Mount & Title. They could give perhaps titles if you complete the season as top 1% or do it like old challenge mode where the Realms best team only is rewarded. However every player that participated in a M+ Season gets Tokens depending on their performance and could buy various cosmetic items. Mounts, Toys, Weapon Transmogs (like PvP Elite), Weapon Enchants (like PvP) or various other rewards. There are a lot of different ways how Blizzard could approach seasons but I think it’s a great idea and has the potential to be something big. I think the future in PvE especially is chained to M+.
This could also be used as qualifier for future MDI’s.
I think Crowd Funding would be a great idea for both PvE & PvP. There are examples in other games where it has worked pretty well and like this people that actually care for the part of the game can support their favorite teams. Blizzard could make Pets/Mounts like they used to in the past for charity events and give some percentage of the earned money into the prize pool of a MDI or even World First Race. They could even make cosmetic items that support specific guilds/teams and change the hearthstone animation or put a flag of your favorite team. I think Blizzard will find cool things to create since they have a really talented team.
Everything is my own opinion.
- Mythic Dungeon Invitational:
- Qualifiers: Not regional, just best performing teams get the spot.
- Qualifiers Timing: Preferably when 50-100 guilds killed current content already.
- Tournament System: Double Elimination Bracket.
- Voting: Teams voting for affixes.
- Class Restrictions: No Class stacking like two Warrior DPS or two Rogue DPS.
- 6th player: Easier to cover several classes and backup incase of internet or other problems.
- Spectator PoV: Showing most important Offensive and Defensive Cooldowns, Legendaries and Trinkets and Heal meter.
- Caster: Having current extremely high end players like Rogerbrown for more insight or participating people commentating.
- Analyze: Analyzers who give quick overview what happened previous game, showing special pulls, damage/healing done and perhaps things like Fel explosives.
- Post game interviews: Interviews with the winner after the games.
- Affixes: Should be interactive like Quaking/Sanguine. Bursting/Bolstering no fun for majority. Tyrannical/Fortified should be reworked.
- Seasonal M+:
- M+ seasons like in PvP with rewards in the end. Mounts/Titles for top% and everyone that participated various cosmetical items. Mounts, Toys, Weapon Transmogs (like PvP Elite), Weapon Enchants (like PvP) or various other stuff.
- Crowd Funding:
- Making Mounts/Pets in the Shop and 50% of the earned money or some other value go into prize pool money.
CCP dev ride along
A long time ago, when making games, devs would demonstrate to management their game play. They would demonstrate their game. They would show the enthusiasm of the players. Beta testing was frequent, and honest feedback was important.
With the age of streaming, this should be easy for a company, seeing how players play the game. But because twitch punishes streams who are in null sec (because they'll just get stream sniped), they need something more personal, something more private.
The idea is that they ask xx random player 'hey, you want to stream to CCP?' when they login. Picking that player is easy, just grab them from the login queue and message them through the client. They ask for a skype number or google hangouts or goto or whatever. CCP can most likely see the person's screen, or they could demonstrate in the hangout or whatever. That person does mining, some ratting, pvp, ccp could ask whatever. The key is that you ask:
- Do you have 15-30 minutes?
- Why did you login?
- Do you enjoy doing the thing you're logging in for?
- What would you rather be doing in that time?
- If you had more time to play, what would you start planning to do?
- What things are you looking forward to in the near term and long term for your game play?
In the late 90's, I was working for GameSpy, supporting server lists and the chat system. I was invited to id software by Disruptor to alpha test Quake III Arena. Three actual celebrities were invited, Blue from BluesNews, Scary from Shacknews, and RonSolo, all of who ran large gaming news sites that were popular then. We were there for QuakeCon anyway, but they wanted to see how we did.
They put us and like 4 devs in standard deathmatch, like Disruptor, Tim Willits, and John Cash. I dominated for the first bit because I had the best video card machine, but was also a good rail gunner at the time. Most importantly, they were testing locational damage. So, if you shot a weapon in the head it would do extra damage. Because I was a decent rail gunner, was good at getting up close with a double barrel shotgun, and had been playing a lot of counter strike, I did quite well. They also had this weird red aura that would come from where you were shot, which was super annoying and huge, making it hard to see. I also remember being an annoying kid cause I was still young then, pretty sure I annoyed my IRC friend Disruptor.
Afterwards, Anna Kang and John Cash asked us what we thought of it. I really loved the engine, thought the game play was fun, pointed out that red armor didn't matter when you would head shot people with the rail gun, pointed to other games in the marketplace that did what they did a bit better. Anna seemed extremely appreciative, gave me a keychain that I still have to this day, and that was it, we went back to quakecon. I'm pretty sure they removed locational damage from Q3A because of me, because of that session, I know I annoyed everyone with my railgunning. John Carmack was there, I thanked him for the alpha test, we talked briefly about it because so many people were following him around. The real highlight afterwards was John Cash spotting me at quakecon and running over to me. That was very neat.
The point of The Dude's story is that it's good to get your player's honest feedback. I know we have the CSM, but those are biased opinions from people who spend too much of their day talking and thinking about eve. They have motivations to push an agenda. I think it's more important to find a cross section of people to just expose what they do. Then, most importantly, you show it to someone more important like eve management. You point out what they're spending their time doing, and what they would prefer to be doing instead. I think eve has the widest disparity of forced game play and wants of game play. Make Hilmar understand that people are spending hours doing strategic ratting (fucking ugh) versus getting an actually good PVP fight.
This could be done by a marketing person and they make a quick 30 minute video cut of player reactions. Hell, could be used for promotional videos later if you wanted. The key is that they need to find players from all over the game, and they need their honest opinion without worrying about spies. Asking people what they actually think and not testing their knowledge if they understand the game mechanics, which don't matter on how people feel about your game.
Then the obvious. Change game play to get rid of boring crap. Get rid of mechanics that slow down actual game play. Make things easier that people spend hours doing just to make things 'worth while'. Find the things that people actually enjoy and would rather be doing and incentive those things. Ask people which is the worst ships and buff them, or you know, use the huge marketplace and data stream to figure that out themselves. Find a reason to get people involved the more fun things. Have a reason for the management to care about the ever steady player base and growing it again. (Though I feel a lot of this are just people getting more accounts rather than new players.)
Anyway, just some thoughts after reading Jester's long reddit thread, which is great, thank you Jester.
edit: I think it's really important that they're just gathering data and not advising the player on what they could be doing bettedifferent. That needs to be separated. You need as much honesty as possible from your players. edit2: I think this says what you need to know about CCP. Instead of 'yes we want CCP more involved', people just complained about gameplay.